1 00:00:00,099 --> 00:00:15,370 34C3 preroll music [Filler line, remove me later] 2 00:00:15,370 --> 00:00:22,859 Herald Angel: The next talks – actually two talks – will be about, somehow about, 3 00:00:22,859 --> 00:00:28,900 saving the world and saving the environment. We will have two different 4 00:00:28,900 --> 00:00:35,050 ways of saving them and the first talk is "Saving the World with Space Solar Power". 5 00:00:35,050 --> 00:00:39,789 It's held by Stefan and Anja and they work as space engineers in Berlin at the 6 00:00:39,789 --> 00:00:47,539 Technical University. That talk will be followed by another approach which is 7 00:00:47,539 --> 00:00:54,699 introduced to you by Christoph. He has a PhD in theoretical physics and his former 8 00:00:54,699 --> 00:01:00,359 work was he was working with higher loop perturbation theory and supersymmetric 9 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:07,799 yang-mills theories and now he is doing airborne wind energy and that will be his 10 00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:13,980 talk also. Please give the three of them a warm applause! 11 00:01:13,980 --> 00:01:25,730 Applause Anja Kohfeldt: Yeah hello! As you have 12 00:01:25,730 --> 00:01:29,690 heard today we are trying to save the world with introducing you to two very 13 00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:36,279 different approaches of sustainable energy generation. We are three, the three of us, 14 00:01:36,279 --> 00:01:42,279 and we start with Stefan. Stefan Junk: Yeah hello everyone. Thanks 15 00:01:42,279 --> 00:01:46,779 for having us here! Anja: And me with our talk about space 16 00:01:46,779 --> 00:01:52,419 solar power. Of course we have an outline and I will start the introduction with 17 00:01:52,419 --> 00:01:59,149 showing you this very nice picture. Here you see the earth at night also known as 18 00:01:59,149 --> 00:02:06,699 the black marble. It's a very interesting picture because it illuminates you or 19 00:02:06,699 --> 00:02:11,950 shows you where people live or at least where people have electric energy. But 20 00:02:11,950 --> 00:02:16,360 there is more information in this picture: When you start comparing these pictures 21 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:23,950 from different years, you also can see how certain regions are developing. And you 22 00:02:23,950 --> 00:02:28,691 also see where suddenly it gets dark, where there has been a catastrophe or a 23 00:02:28,691 --> 00:02:35,740 war or something like that. So the availability of electricity is an 24 00:02:35,740 --> 00:02:40,340 indicator for human development. We still have an increasing amount of power. This 25 00:02:40,340 --> 00:02:44,020 is also something we can see with that picture. But, unfortunately, currently 26 00:02:44,033 --> 00:02:49,800 this power demand is largely covered by fossil resources. So yes, we need 27 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:55,710 definitely renewable sustainable energy such as solar power, wind parks, water 28 00:02:55,710 --> 00:03:03,160 plants or even other solutions. The thing with terrestrial bound energy plans is 29 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:09,670 that they are bound to a certain location on earth, normally, so you either need to 30 00:03:09,670 --> 00:03:14,720 decentralize them having a lot everywhere or you need a lot of the transfer 31 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:20,121 infrastructure. The other thing is – especially when thinking about a wind or a 32 00:03:20,121 --> 00:03:26,550 solar power – that the availability is very varying and bound to certain 33 00:03:26,550 --> 00:03:31,540 conditions. So you need to store the energy. When coming, when talking about 34 00:03:31,540 --> 00:03:35,960 solar energy of course I mean we have the day/night cycle, we have the atmosphere, 35 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:44,400 so we have weather interferences. So why not go into space? There are some selling 36 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,421 arguments – or some really selling arguments – about space solar power: As I 37 00:03:48,421 --> 00:03:55,530 already said it's sustainable, because it's sun powered. Space generally is very 38 00:03:55,530 --> 00:04:05,520 very large, so we can build quite big structures without covering any space, any 39 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:14,140 area on earth. We are, it is possible to have some sunlight on our satellites up 40 00:04:14,140 --> 00:04:19,280 there all around the clock. And we don't have an atmosphere, so there is no 41 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:23,910 weather. So space solar power promises to have an unlimited, constant and 42 00:04:23,910 --> 00:04:30,730 predictable energy source. That's cool! Good! In addition, we don't need that much 43 00:04:30,730 --> 00:04:37,020 infrastructure to distribute the power on earth. For example if you could compare 44 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:43,020 that to a huge solar theater for example in the Sahara, you would need a lot of 45 00:04:43,020 --> 00:04:47,770 cables in order to get the power for example to Europe. This comes with some 46 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:56,090 problems. But also if solving the problem of power transmission, you can get energy 47 00:04:56,090 --> 00:05:01,360 to very very remote locations on earth and you also can get the energy there quite 48 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:09,300 quickly. And of course the intervention in the landscape is … let's call it minimized 49 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:16,060 to a certain way. This concept of space solar power actually isn't that young. 50 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:23,110 It's there's a pattern from Peter Glaser from the 70s who already proposed a method 51 00:05:23,110 --> 00:05:28,660 and apparatus for converting solar radiation to electrical power. And here 52 00:05:28,660 --> 00:05:33,710 you see – you yes there's a small red spot, I'm not sure whether you can see 53 00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:38,390 that – but you already see that he introduces all the components that are in 54 00:05:38,390 --> 00:05:43,100 need: Of course we need the earth, we need some large area for solar, for sun 55 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:48,540 collection and we need some some antenna in order to transmit this power. Since the 56 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:54,310 70s these concepts were actually discussed all along. Since then they where 57 00:05:54,310 --> 00:06:01,589 discussed. And the state of the art approach for that is called SPS Alpha 58 00:06:01,589 --> 00:06:05,650 which stands for "Solar Power Satellite by means of Arbitrarily Large Phased Array". 59 00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:12,750 It's the best-documented approach in that area which comes with a phase one study 60 00:06:12,750 --> 00:06:22,769 financed by NASA in 2011 and 12, and they suggest a satellite structure based on the 61 00:06:22,769 --> 00:06:27,300 geostationary orbit which is non moving gravity gradient stabilized. It's 62 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:34,730 collecting the sun with a very very large mirror array and a transmitter power with 63 00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:40,560 a microwave beam. It looks like that for example – or it could look like that, like 64 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:47,900 a whine glass. It could look like a puddle, but there is three main components 65 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:53,990 here: So we have the Sun Reflector Mirror – this is this very very large shape – 66 00:06:53,990 --> 00:07:01,690 these sun reflecting mirrors are made of actually solar sail material so extremely 67 00:07:01,690 --> 00:07:10,210 lightweight although they are so big. The core piece of this installation are the so 68 00:07:10,210 --> 00:07:18,380 called hex modules which you see here and they host both the solar array, the solar 69 00:07:18,380 --> 00:07:26,439 panels and the wireless power transmission modules. We come to that later. And then 70 00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:30,579 of course you also need the structure which holds everything together. In 71 00:07:30,579 --> 00:07:36,810 addition to that you need some support structures like little robots combining, 72 00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:43,749 fixing, exchanging modules and so on, but they are not further discussed yet. But 73 00:07:43,749 --> 00:07:47,960 the NASA approach isn't the only one. There's also an approach from from JAXA. 74 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:54,440 This is a Japanese Space Agency. They call their approach tethered SPS. It's also a 75 00:07:54,440 --> 00:08:00,470 gravity ground stabilized approach which you can see here. The idea is basically 76 00:08:00,470 --> 00:08:05,370 the same but they don't have the mirrors. Their selling argument is: You know our 77 00:08:05,370 --> 00:08:11,580 system is so simple, we're sure it will work somehow. But they also say that it's 78 00:08:11,580 --> 00:08:19,620 not as efficient as the other approaches. In addition there are Japanese scientists 79 00:08:19,620 --> 00:08:26,780 involved in the SPS Alpha study. But what I think is most interesting there are also 80 00:08:26,780 --> 00:08:33,650 a lot of Japanese approaches driving forwards the wireless power transmission. 81 00:08:33,650 --> 00:08:39,899 Then there's a new – quite new – approach. This is from the Chinese space agency of 82 00:08:39,899 --> 00:08:45,189 CAST and they suggest a Multi-Rotary joints SPS, which you can see here. So 83 00:08:45,189 --> 00:08:52,550 here in this the yellow spot over here also is the transmission antenna. But they 84 00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:58,469 have their solar arrays bound in this structure which is approximately 10 85 00:08:58,469 --> 00:09:04,750 kilometers wide and they adjust the position of their solar panels according 86 00:09:04,750 --> 00:09:12,650 to the sun position. So this is how they try to increase the efficiency. There's 87 00:09:12,650 --> 00:09:21,950 also a paper from Europe which is quite old but I'm not aware of a current work on 88 00:09:21,950 --> 00:09:29,559 European ground here. If we summarize some of the core parameters of these three 89 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:35,399 documented or still discussed approaches, we come to this nice table. So we are 90 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:40,199 talking about a power transmission between 1 and 2 gigawatts. These entire structures 91 00:09:40,199 --> 00:09:48,989 have a mass of about 10,000 tons – metric tons – or even more. Yes the Japanese 92 00:09:48,989 --> 00:09:55,910 approach the antennas are quite big. We'll come to that later. This comes with a 93 00:09:55,910 --> 00:10:03,950 certain energy density, but the total efficiency of this of these approaches are 94 00:10:03,950 --> 00:10:08,849 calculated – and there's also a little bit of like a small wish list included. This 95 00:10:08,849 --> 00:10:15,809 total energy is in the range of more or less 20%. I put a question mark behind 96 00:10:15,809 --> 00:10:19,229 this 25% of the JAXA approach, because they even said that they won't be as 97 00:10:19,229 --> 00:10:25,699 efficient as the others are. So don't take this number too serious. Maybe we must 98 00:10:25,699 --> 00:10:34,470 calculate it. Yes. With that with these three approaches, I would say problem 99 00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:52,249 solved, isn't it? Applause Stefan: .......concepts. But there are some major 100 00:10:52,249 --> 00:11:00,190 challenges we want to point out here. At first this is the attitude in orbit 101 00:11:00,190 --> 00:11:06,110 control so this station is in the geostationary orbit. There are several of 102 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:12,400 the TV satellites doing the same and it's working quite well, but these TV 103 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:18,949 satellites are about 1.8 metric tons and this station we're talking about is about 104 00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:28,520 10,000 tons or 9 to 25 thousand tons, so this is a huge difference. In the 105 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,979 geostationary orbit it's not a big deal to rotate. It's very slow. So we just need to 106 00:11:33,979 --> 00:11:40,340 point to watch the earth to hit the designated point on earth we want to 107 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:47,550 transfer the energy to. And then we have a phased array antenna, so these are these 108 00:11:47,550 --> 00:11:53,370 little modules you saw before to form a beam which points exactly to the receiving 109 00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:59,969 point at the earth for the energy. Another point is the the orbit control. This means 110 00:11:59,969 --> 00:12:05,259 the distance from Earth and the speed the station is traveling with. This is another 111 00:12:05,259 --> 00:12:14,009 point. This is already for TV satellites a little bit difficult to do. And now we 112 00:12:14,009 --> 00:12:20,790 have, as I said, this one thousand metric tons station to lift up to the right 113 00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:28,119 distance or to accelerate. There are several forces trying to push us out of 114 00:12:28,119 --> 00:12:33,700 the exact orbit and we would lose the exact spot we want to point at. And there 115 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:39,800 is the lunar gravity, the sun gravity or solar gravity, and the flattened poles of 116 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,840 the earth. You know the earth is not a perfect sphere, is more imperfect, is more 117 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:51,020 like a donut. You have flattened points at the poles which disturb the gravity field. 118 00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:56,669 There are solar winds and radiation pressure. Solar wind comes from the Sun. 119 00:12:56,669 --> 00:13:01,789 These are particles hitting the station and pushing it out of the orbit. And there 120 00:13:01,789 --> 00:13:08,679 is radiation pressure, the same that comes from deep space. This station is huge. So 121 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,730 you have a huge surface. This is different from the most TV satellites. So we have to 122 00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:19,490 overcome this. Luckily, we have nearly unlimited energy with this station, and we 123 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:24,239 can use electrical thruster. So we don't need any fuel or propellant. Maybe a 124 00:13:24,239 --> 00:13:30,439 little bit propellant to bring up to the station. Another point is the power 125 00:13:30,439 --> 00:13:36,389 transmission. I think this is the most critical point. As I said, it's in a 126 00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:42,029 geostationary orbit and I have an example here. I chose the MR SPS because the 127 00:13:42,029 --> 00:13:47,789 numbers are so round, but most of the concepts are similar, as you saw before. 128 00:13:47,789 --> 00:13:55,389 So I think about a 1GW output station. And in the picture on the right and chopped 129 00:13:55,389 --> 00:14:00,329 you can see the yellow point is the standing antenna. This would be about 130 00:14:00,329 --> 00:14:10,379 1.000 meter in diameter. So this is about 110 soccer fields placed in space. This 131 00:14:10,379 --> 00:14:18,430 antenna is sending a microwave beam with 2.45 GHz or 5.8 GH. These frequencies are 132 00:14:18,430 --> 00:14:24,560 chosen because of the low attenuation or damping in the atmosphere. We want to 133 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:32,719 transfer the most energy. And this beam hits at the receiving antenna, or in the 134 00:14:32,719 --> 00:14:39,329 literature called the Rectenna. And this Rectenna is going to be about 5.000 meters 135 00:14:39,329 --> 00:14:49,330 in diameter. This is 2.750 soccer fields, or about 20 times the Messe Leipzig area. 136 00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:55,259 So you can imagine this is a big deal. If you think about wind parks are ugly, then 137 00:14:55,259 --> 00:15:02,699 maybe you think about this area. OK, so you can read more about if you like in the 138 00:15:02,699 --> 00:15:09,210 references. We have a link to this. Now, I guess you wonder about the efficiency of 139 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:14,259 this. Anja talked about it already a little bit. I have the subsystems here 140 00:15:14,259 --> 00:15:18,850 including, and I think the most important part is this microwave beam. This is the 141 00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:23,609 third position, and this is actually not tested. So this is just a calculated 142 00:15:23,609 --> 00:15:32,159 number. These 85% or 90% to 95% is just from the studies we read. Current tests 143 00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:38,559 are more in the area of 1% or a few percent. And most studies are not really 144 00:15:38,559 --> 00:15:45,400 certain about the total efficiency. So we have 18% to 24% with these numbers. And 145 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:53,609 from other studies we have 13% to 25%. So this is most calculated. So now you would 146 00:15:53,609 --> 00:15:58,849 wonder if wouldn't laser work for this? Or microwave beep sounds nice and you have 147 00:15:58,849 --> 00:16:03,390 this nice receiving antenna. But a laser would be much smaller, I guess. So, yes, 148 00:16:03,390 --> 00:16:11,279 basically you could use laser for this. And it would have a much higher energy 149 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:15,709 density. So you could hit a really smaller spot on the earth to receive the energy. 150 00:16:15,709 --> 00:16:21,599 You don't have this 5 kilometers receiving antenna. But most of the research 151 00:16:21,599 --> 00:16:27,271 institutes don't want to talk about lasers. I think it's just a little bit too 152 00:16:27,271 --> 00:16:33,889 obvious that you have some … Laughter 153 00:16:33,889 --> 00:16:41,249 Stefan: OK, so this is the most technical things, I think. 154 00:16:41,249 --> 00:16:46,189 Anja: The other question is, who is gonna pay for that? And if we talk about this 155 00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:51,349 extremely large structures that have to be built, and since they're also are meant to 156 00:16:51,349 --> 00:16:57,480 be in the geostationary orbit where we have a certain radiation force, and we 157 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,340 want these components to operate for quite a long time, they are usually quite 158 00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:07,819 expensive and geting all the certification for sending them up there is also very 159 00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:12,310 expensive. Somehow the SPS Alpha approach has thought about that, and they are 160 00:17:12,310 --> 00:17:21,089 aiming at, although the numbers are varying very much, at a material cost of $ 161 00:17:21,089 --> 00:17:32,030 250 per kilogram, which still is some billion dollars. And it is also a wish 162 00:17:32,030 --> 00:17:38,670 list. So they are aiming for this number in their third approach where they think 163 00:17:38,670 --> 00:17:41,600 that they already have the mass production, and have the certification, 164 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:47,339 and the engineering and development cost all covered up already. There's another 165 00:17:47,339 --> 00:17:50,509 thing and this is the launch cost. So we are talking about a structure which is 166 00:17:50,509 --> 00:18:03,030 maybe 10 thousand tonnes large, or heavy. Again, the SPS Alpha guys, they hope that 167 00:18:03,030 --> 00:18:08,080 they could launch a kilo for $600 into the low-earth orbit, and continue from the 168 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:13,669 low-earth orbit into the geostationary orbit with electrical truck trusters. OK, 169 00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:20,269 maybe if the BFR rocket will be available for the price of the Falcon 9, maybe. But 170 00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:26,690 this also would take some time. Just a reality check right now, for the prices 171 00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:32,450 the SpaceX provides on their site, the Falcon Heavy which was erected today, I 172 00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:37,240 don't know whether you have heard that, so also the Falcon Heavy has not flown yet. 173 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:44,079 But SpaceX hopes that they could sell the the Falcon Heavy for 90 million dollars in 174 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:49,990 order to lift 26 tons into geostationary orbit. But that would be approximately 400 175 00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:56,590 launches for such a structure as the SPS Alpha, and also would cost some tens of 176 00:18:56,590 --> 00:19:00,630 billion dollars. Additioned to that, there are some other costs like the initial 177 00:19:00,630 --> 00:19:05,081 orbit installation cost which comes with 11 billion dollars, and an operation of a 178 00:19:05,081 --> 00:19:11,369 100 million a year. So it's quite expensive and probably this is also one of 179 00:19:11,369 --> 00:19:18,289 the reasons why we don't have space solar power, yet. But still, I mean, we have 180 00:19:18,289 --> 00:19:25,789 technical problems, this is just money, maybe it's also solvable, isn't it? 181 00:19:25,789 --> 00:19:28,900 Stefan: Yeah, so you know about the concept, you know about the challenges, 182 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:34,440 and let's assume we can overcome these challenges, and someone is funding this 183 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:42,510 big station. I think, there are some considerations about if we want to do 184 00:19:42,510 --> 00:19:53,690 this. And at first, so this beam is, you need a precision of about one 10.000ths of 185 00:19:53,690 --> 00:20:00,760 a degree plus minus to hit the spot at the earth. So this is like you want to hit a 186 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:08,460 hazelnut of a 100 meters from a station flying with 3 kilometers per second. If 187 00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:14,209 there's something goes wrong and the beam is hitting the wrong spot, maybe, you 188 00:20:14,209 --> 00:20:19,500 know, it's not a good idea. Or if some of the antennas are not working well, the 189 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:24,880 beam is not forming right, and it's straying somewhere. So this is one point. 190 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:32,640 Let's assume everything works well, and the beam is still going through the space, 191 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:38,180 and it's going through the atmosphere. And there are some other satellites going. 192 00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:43,110 Maybe, for an accident, they go through the beam. What happens then? Or, if you 193 00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:47,559 can't, or by accident, and the airplane goes through the beam. So it's not even 194 00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:51,960 allowed to turn on your phone on the airplane. You can imagine what happens if 195 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:57,180 this beam with 50 watts per square meter hits the airplane. I don't want to sit in 196 00:20:57,180 --> 00:21:03,399 this. And then you can't avoid the animals, birds, insects, whatever go 197 00:21:03,409 --> 00:21:09,489 through the beam. And maybe you have a same imagination like I have, or we have. 198 00:21:09,489 --> 00:21:11,610 Soft laughter Stefan: And it looks a little bit like 199 00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:15,830 this maybe. Laughter 200 00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:22,059 Stefan: It sounds pretty scary, I think. Doesn't it a little bit sound like an 201 00:21:22,059 --> 00:21:29,380 energy weapon? So we thought about: OK 50 watts per square meter; it's not like a 202 00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:36,719 nuclear weapon, but still it could harm a lot. There is a high energy density, and 203 00:21:36,719 --> 00:21:42,640 you can really fast readjust this beam. So you can point it in 1 second to the 204 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,260 receiving antenna, and the next second, you can just point it to some city, and a 205 00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:55,670 second later, you point it just back. It's really fast to change. It's not really 206 00:21:55,670 --> 00:22:03,470 defendable. I mean, you can sit in the bunker and try to hide, and maybe put your 207 00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:14,380 aluminum hat on. After all it's useful. Applause 208 00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:20,970 Stefan: But still, this thing is 24/7 on, so it could hit your bunker all the time. 209 00:22:20,970 --> 00:22:30,951 And last year, there's a lot of interest from military institutions. So this is, I 210 00:22:30,951 --> 00:22:36,549 think it's a bit scary. OK. And then you would ask: But it's legal to install this 211 00:22:36,549 --> 00:22:45,460 kind of application? So basically, yeah. You see, there is already the United 212 00:22:45,460 --> 00:22:50,339 Nations Outer Space Treaty. It was first signed from the Russian Federation, and 213 00:22:50,339 --> 00:22:56,279 the United Kingdom, and the United States. And now it's in the United Nations 214 00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:03,100 treaties and most of the other countries signed it, too. It's about all the 215 00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:11,440 activities of States in the space. What does it say about this case here? And it 216 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,930 says, there are no nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction allowed 217 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:22,879 in outer space. As always, there's a backdoor. If you install a military object 218 00:23:22,879 --> 00:23:30,700 in outer space with a scientific reason, then it's allowed again. So another point 219 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:39,470 is in this treaty you must not influence the earth environment at all. There are no 220 00:23:39,470 --> 00:23:43,829 real studies about this. I have a feeling it's going to influence somehow the 221 00:23:43,829 --> 00:23:50,890 environment, but I'm not sure about this – I'm not a lawyer. So finally this all this 222 00:23:50,890 --> 00:23:55,179 funding and this technology and the knowledge is necessary, so it's only 223 00:23:55,179 --> 00:24:02,300 possible by some few states to build this. And how do you prevent that certain 224 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:09,629 leaders of states or whoever's want to build this is misuse this technology. So I 225 00:24:09,629 --> 00:24:13,800 can't give you an answer on that, but I think there are some who shouldn't have 226 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:21,430 this. Yeah and you maybe you can think about this after the talk. And now we have 227 00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:31,989 some take-home words for you from Anja. Anja: So yes, the concepts are existing 228 00:24:31,989 --> 00:24:37,869 and we don't say that they should not be discussed and that they are entirely evil. 229 00:24:37,869 --> 00:24:46,130 They it's technologically feasible – at least that that's proposed some studies –, 230 00:24:46,130 --> 00:24:51,200 but I mean it's still challenging: The technology is not there yet, but the moral 231 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,650 questions are still open. So yes it's still pretty science-fiction and as I said 232 00:24:56,650 --> 00:25:01,589 we don't say it's we should not do that at all, but at least we should think about it 233 00:25:01,589 --> 00:25:08,779 and be critical with this kind or also with other new technologies. So but right 234 00:25:08,779 --> 00:25:15,909 now, maybe, we should think about: Is there another solution to this energy 235 00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:27,210 problem? Maybe a more realistic, maybe a less problematic one I mean? 236 00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:41,150 Interrupted? postroll music