WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:13.760 So, I'm really pleased to kick off the next session, so we have Hans and Hayley from F-Droid, 00:13.760 --> 00:18.200 and they're going to be talking about the results of global survey they ran with their 00:18.200 --> 00:20.200 ecosystem. 00:20.200 --> 00:22.760 So, I'm going to kick off with you, right? 00:23.760 --> 00:29.760 Hello, testing testing, is that working? 00:29.760 --> 00:31.760 Yeah, okay. 00:31.760 --> 00:44.040 Hi, I'm Hans, let's see, so this is a funding gap in F-Droid and what we learned and how to 00:44.040 --> 00:45.040 close it. 00:45.040 --> 00:50.600 So, it's going to be, I think it could hopefully a good follow-on to the previous talk, 00:50.600 --> 00:57.400 but more like one specific example and how we kind of winged it and figured it out. 00:57.400 --> 01:04.980 So, F-Droid, I think, is really a community built around an idea, like so many free software 01:04.980 --> 01:13.120 projects, and is that we want apps that respect the user first and foremost, in all the ways 01:13.120 --> 01:14.120 that we want to be respected. 01:14.120 --> 01:19.480 And of course, key to that is free software, privacy is a big part of this. 01:19.480 --> 01:29.880 We want it to operate transparently and all the ways and processes that we have. 01:29.880 --> 01:36.560 So, it's like many projects that started with someone having an idea and people will 01:36.560 --> 01:41.880 say, wow, that's a good idea and we'll join, so this is founded by Keer and Goodnix in 2010, 01:41.880 --> 01:47.320 and lots of us have joined on, and it's also, a key part of it is it is largely driven 01:47.320 --> 01:48.320 by volunteers. 01:48.320 --> 01:53.920 It is not like a company or something with an executive director. 01:53.920 --> 01:57.280 Those some of us get paid for some of our work. 01:57.280 --> 02:05.960 So, at its core and Android app store and an Android app ecosystem and also all the things 02:05.960 --> 02:10.680 needed to build an app store yourself. 02:10.680 --> 02:14.440 So, why do people choose after it? 02:14.440 --> 02:23.760 I think a big part of it is because we all need a phone, and a lot of people feel abused 02:23.760 --> 02:27.280 by the major providers and feeling locked in. 02:27.280 --> 02:33.600 And so, this drives people look for alternative, and we want to be structured in a way 02:33.600 --> 02:40.240 that says, like, we want to provide user freedom, we want to provide apps that you're 02:40.280 --> 02:45.800 not like, okay, I'll install it, because I have to, but I wish I didn't. 02:45.800 --> 02:49.840 And that means, this is where the volunteers come into it. 02:49.840 --> 02:55.280 We want people to be able to review apps and make the decision based on the truth of 02:55.280 --> 02:58.880 it and not saying, well, that app is making so much money. 02:58.880 --> 03:05.040 Now, if you look at some of the big app stores, an app store that makes tons of money, those 03:05.040 --> 03:09.640 app stores get a cut, and the reviews look different. 03:09.640 --> 03:14.160 So in our case, we operate transparently, and we want people to call us out if they think 03:14.160 --> 03:15.160 we're doing something wrong. 03:15.160 --> 03:19.280 We want anyone to be able to look into it. 03:19.280 --> 03:28.480 This, of course, doesn't necessarily lead to lots of income, unlike the other model. 03:28.480 --> 03:35.760 So we're also, like, a case study for a lot of those classic, fast issues of, like, how 03:35.800 --> 03:39.440 do we make this sustainable? 03:39.440 --> 03:45.480 It was, I can say, you know, I think it's been a kind of wild ride. 03:45.480 --> 03:54.520 It started out small, dedicated, a little people, it was a not a big deal to feel the burden 03:54.520 --> 03:55.520 of the maintenance. 03:55.520 --> 04:00.880 And then, in the last few years, it's really taken off, and through the power of 04:00.920 --> 04:05.280 the software, the small, tiny team with a tiny budget, conserved millions of people, 04:05.280 --> 04:11.840 but the stress gets quite high, and we get, you know, we're hitting all sorts of new and 04:11.840 --> 04:19.080 interesting issues of dealing with the Russian censorship authority, dealing with 04:19.080 --> 04:24.360 take-down notices of all kinds, and none of us are lawyers, and then so on and so 04:24.360 --> 04:25.360 for it. 04:25.360 --> 04:30.520 So, yeah, this leads to, like, stress, burnout, people don't really want to volunteer for 04:30.520 --> 04:35.280 something like, oh, yeah, I'll be the person who puts my neck on the line to the Russian 04:35.280 --> 04:39.920 censorship authority, for, you know, without being paid. 04:39.920 --> 04:44.440 So far, yeah, that wouldn't have been a tough case. 04:44.440 --> 04:56.560 Yeah, so we, we, we just got some funding from the open technology fund about making 04:56.560 --> 05:04.800 after it is sustainable projects, so that gave us the resources to look into our particular 05:04.800 --> 05:10.960 problems, but then also publish as much as possible about what we've learned, and things 05:10.960 --> 05:14.160 give us the resources to look at other projects and what they've learned, and hopefully 05:14.160 --> 05:16.600 presents to all you in a form that you can learn from. 05:16.600 --> 05:18.600 And for that, I will hand to you. 05:18.600 --> 05:19.600 Yeah. 05:19.600 --> 05:20.600 Hello. 05:20.600 --> 05:21.600 Is this all right? 05:21.600 --> 05:22.600 Yeah. 05:22.600 --> 05:23.600 Hey, everybody. 05:24.160 --> 05:25.160 Thanks so much, Hans. 05:25.160 --> 05:27.160 Hi, everyone. 05:27.160 --> 05:33.440 So, yeah, Hans kind of segueed really beautifully into the next slide, which is the slide 05:33.440 --> 05:36.040 about open technology fund. 05:36.040 --> 05:42.120 We got the Foster Sustainability Grant, and as he said, you know, it was to address critical 05:42.120 --> 05:49.280 infrastructure, both on a technological standpoint, and then also our internal operations. 05:49.280 --> 05:55.880 Things were getting neglected, policies, how do we handle legal take-down requests, all sorts 05:55.880 --> 06:03.040 of things, and one of the things that we got funding to work on was understanding our 06:03.040 --> 06:05.600 donations management. 06:05.600 --> 06:11.440 And so, as a result of that, we decided to do a study just to understand how people were 06:11.440 --> 06:18.160 thinking in the community about funding, one thing that was on the previous slide, but I think 06:18.160 --> 06:21.480 it's really important to highlight is the user perception, is that fast maybe means 06:21.480 --> 06:26.320 gratis, but for us, it means free software. 06:26.320 --> 06:32.040 But the word free in fast, it kind of gets lost in translation sometimes. 06:32.040 --> 06:37.160 And so, we wanted to explore that a little bit, and that's what we did in the study. 06:37.160 --> 06:43.280 But before we dive into the results from the study that we did, we wanted to hear from you 06:43.280 --> 06:44.280 guys. 06:44.280 --> 06:48.120 So, I don't know if anybody has used slide-o before, but you guys can go ahead and 06:48.120 --> 06:53.800 scan the QR code, and we're going to see what we all hear in the room thing about 06:53.800 --> 07:01.920 this topic, and then we can compare it to the results of the study to see if we hear our 07:01.920 --> 07:06.800 answering the survey in a similar manner. 07:06.800 --> 07:13.480 So, so far, we got five, so in the top, right there, you can see how many people are 07:13.480 --> 07:21.760 participating, and so far, everybody is saying yes, spoiler alert, that was very consistent 07:21.760 --> 07:24.360 with the study. 07:24.360 --> 07:29.880 Most people, especially if you're in the fast community, do believe that it's acceptable 07:29.880 --> 07:35.400 for fast projects to request donations and to accept donations. 07:35.400 --> 07:42.080 But I do think that if you're not actively in the fast community working on projects, 07:42.080 --> 07:47.520 so we're helping to get projects funded, you might, you know, misunderstand the F in 07:47.520 --> 07:50.120 Fos, and think that it means gratis. 07:50.120 --> 07:55.400 Okay, we'll go on to, we got no nose, which is actually great, yes. 07:55.400 --> 07:57.160 This is a different one. 07:57.160 --> 08:02.160 It's an open-answered question, so you guys can type in your responses. 08:02.160 --> 08:09.520 They're going to pop up live, so please be respected in what you're writing, but yeah, 08:09.520 --> 08:14.160 so the question is, what challenges or concerns do you associate with donation based funding 08:14.160 --> 08:16.160 for Fos? 08:16.160 --> 08:23.280 So, challenges from a Fos project perspective, if you're a contributor to a project, 08:23.280 --> 08:28.000 and then also challenges from a funder perspective, because we have a mix of those different 08:28.000 --> 08:29.760 types of people here in the room. 08:29.760 --> 08:35.360 So, your perception might be different, what do we got? 08:35.360 --> 08:39.400 Oh, they're coming in fast, I can't even read it all. 08:39.400 --> 08:43.960 Not enough, unreliable, unpredictable, perceived as not professional, feel like you're 08:43.960 --> 08:50.160 nagging, we're going to get to that, unsustainable, uncertainty in the long term, and yeah, 08:50.160 --> 08:55.360 also the people who are live streaming, you guys can participate too, so happy to be here. 08:55.360 --> 08:59.080 I'm glad you're happy to be here, me too. 08:59.080 --> 09:04.500 Legal risks, yeah, that was also something that we worked on as a part of the OTF Fos 09:04.500 --> 09:10.780 sustainability grant, I don't understand, it's an ice cream money, I don't understand that one. 09:10.780 --> 09:18.100 But yeah, there's lots of challenges and concerns, and we tried to explore that a little 09:18.100 --> 09:24.300 bit and kind of understand where people's heads are at, are we got one more, and I'm curious 09:24.300 --> 09:28.580 about what you guys have to say about this, so what is the most respectful and effective 09:28.580 --> 09:34.500 way to communicate a donation campaign to users or contributors? 09:34.500 --> 09:41.980 So we wanted to try to understand the whole nagging topic, how can we ask for donations without 09:41.980 --> 09:47.500 becoming annoying and nagging, meanwhile, knowing that we somehow need to ask for money, 09:47.500 --> 09:57.540 but no one really likes to, so this is kind of a dilemma, email, okay, we have some pessimists, 09:57.540 --> 10:04.660 popups, mess it on, is it working without being annoying? 10:04.660 --> 10:09.060 The data is was interesting on that point, we're going to get to it. 10:09.060 --> 10:13.580 Yearly activity, repost, I think that's supposed to say personal stories, that was also 10:13.580 --> 10:22.100 coming up, trolling, I hope not, download page, nudging, yeah, the question is how do you 10:22.180 --> 10:29.860 judge respectfully, that's almost a contradiction, we tried to figure that one out, stagger 10:29.860 --> 10:36.020 amounts respectfully, yes, that also came up in the study which we'll get to, so yeah, again, 10:36.020 --> 10:40.900 if you're joining us via the livestream, feel free to participate, and I think the polls 10:40.900 --> 10:45.340 are going to remain open, so I think that you can, I think you guys can go back and 10:45.340 --> 10:50.660 keep doing it, but we're going to carry on because we have the survey to get to now, thank 10:50.740 --> 10:56.740 you guys for contributing and sharing your thoughts, so who do we interview, we interviewed 10:56.740 --> 11:01.140 84 people that participated in the survey, sorry, not interviewed, we also did interviews 11:01.140 --> 11:06.260 in addition to the survey, I need to separate this too, 84 people participated in the survey, 11:06.260 --> 11:15.140 and we wanted to learn about who these 84 were, 53 had contributed to fast projects, 27 are 11:15.220 --> 11:22.340 or have been fast project maintainers, and six, only six had been involved in running or conducting 11:22.340 --> 11:26.580 donation campaigns, I think that says a lot, there's a lot of people who are doing a lot of work 11:26.580 --> 11:31.540 and are not getting funded via donations, so how are they getting funded, I mean, of course, 11:31.540 --> 11:35.700 there's, as we know, from the devroom, there's a lot of different ways to get funding, 11:35.700 --> 11:44.820 but donations didn't seem to be one, general attitudes, so 83 out of the 84 believed that it was 11:45.220 --> 11:51.620 acceptable to request donations, so that tracks very similarly with what we all here in the room 11:51.620 --> 11:57.620 agree, every happy about that, and more than half actually said that they believed asking for donations 11:57.620 --> 12:03.300 is extremely important, so if it's extremely important, why are we all struggling with this so 12:03.300 --> 12:12.180 much and how can we make it better, this is kind of the main question, right? We wanted to understand 12:12.180 --> 12:17.140 a little bit about their experience with donation campaigns, so we learned that 19 out of the 12:17.140 --> 12:24.020 24 have organized or participated in a campaign, and while donations are important, the fast community 12:24.020 --> 12:29.300 lacks hands-on experience with campaigning, that's very consistent with what I said on the previous slide. 12:30.500 --> 12:37.700 We identified some core challenges, which was the organizational side of donation campaign 12:37.780 --> 12:44.340 management, transparency and reporting, understanding donor behavior and awareness, 12:46.100 --> 12:49.940 the platform itself and technical setup, which actually was interesting to me, 12:51.780 --> 12:58.980 and influenced that ethics, so we started mapping some patterns, and these were the general, 12:58.980 --> 13:06.900 I guess, core buckets that we could identify. Now we're getting to the nudging, so what communication 13:06.980 --> 13:15.540 methods are pushy or off-putting, and you'll probably see some patterns with what we all mentioned 13:15.540 --> 13:27.460 in the slide. Yeah, pop-up notifications, not great. Pop-ups at the top, pop-ups at the bottom, 13:28.340 --> 13:36.660 some people don't like banners, but do we need banners, question mark, donation button at the top, 13:36.660 --> 13:45.300 or side of a screen, and then that seemed to be like one of the least pushy, and then email or social 13:45.300 --> 13:52.660 media posts requesting support. So yeah, most pushy were pop-up notifications, where you have to click 13:53.060 --> 14:01.540 to exit, these are very common, my experience. So other pushy communication methods, because we also 14:01.540 --> 14:06.020 had like another option, and we let people kind of describe what they thought was pushy and annoying, 14:06.100 --> 14:11.780 and this is what they wrote, anything tracking related, that's kind of obvious, anything that 14:11.780 --> 14:19.700 disrupts your workflow, also, again, makes sense, constant reminders. So if you're going to ask for donations, 14:19.700 --> 14:28.740 just don't do it every single time, please, that was kind of the theme. These were interesting, 14:28.740 --> 14:35.460 asking for payment before trying the software. So that actually challenged a conception that we had, 14:35.540 --> 14:40.500 which was the pay-to-down load, which is kind of, I guess a little bit more old school compared 14:40.500 --> 14:45.620 with other, you know, different options, but some people said that they don't like to do that. 14:45.620 --> 14:53.860 I guess they want free, for a time, or free-me-in. So this pay-to before trying the software was pushy, 14:54.900 --> 15:00.500 high frequency. So again, that was a repeating theme, locking features behind a donation wall, 15:00.500 --> 15:07.140 and lack of permanent dismissal button. So if you guys are considering doing donation campaigns, 15:07.140 --> 15:11.620 you can take this, ideally take this information, and incorporate it into your own campaigns, 15:11.620 --> 15:18.820 and hopefully improve that quality of your campaigns, too. What did they think was more respectful? 15:18.820 --> 15:24.420 Now, these are people's opinions, so some of the data is a little bit contradictory, 15:24.500 --> 15:31.140 because on social media, they said, you know, use key visuals or a video as a call to action, 15:31.140 --> 15:38.980 rather than just text. They said periodic posting during a specific campaign cycle was okay. 15:39.700 --> 15:44.580 So if you're campaigning around a specific push or specific theme or something, 15:45.060 --> 15:51.220 you can talk to us a lot about that specific thing, but not just like, we need money, just blank it all the time. 15:51.220 --> 15:54.740 Give us money, give us money. That was not great, but if you're like campaigning around, 15:54.740 --> 16:02.020 we need a new this, or we want to do this, then you can repeat that message, and that was not pushy, 16:03.060 --> 16:09.300 and campaign boosts from community. So get your fans to tell people, instead of you asking 16:09.300 --> 16:12.260 for money, get other people to ask money on your behalf. That worked well. 16:14.340 --> 16:19.780 Website specific. So communicate via blog or donation page, include how donations are spent, 16:19.860 --> 16:22.180 transparency is important, and we're going to be getting back to that. 16:23.140 --> 16:29.220 Obvious, but unobtrusive banner. You can interpret that, how you will. So I guess for some people, 16:29.220 --> 16:36.580 banners were not pushy, but they shouldn't be obtrusive. Interactive dashboards for donation goals was 16:37.300 --> 16:43.300 a plus. In apps, single pop-up, first time use, occasional pop-ups with short explanations, 16:43.780 --> 16:46.660 and a donation button at the about or help section. 16:47.940 --> 16:52.420 The key takeaway is that they're necessary, but they should not be the first thing a user sees, 16:53.380 --> 16:58.740 because that gets a little pushy. Most respectful and effective communication methods on get 16:58.740 --> 17:03.620 specifically donate to the project section in the Get Read Me and via email, 17:03.620 --> 17:11.220 subscription for opt-in messaging, or quarterly emails to list. So it's important to be consistent, 17:11.220 --> 17:16.900 but in the right frequency, and about the right things, if that makes sense. 17:18.740 --> 17:22.820 Trustworthiness was really important, so I just wanted to quickly talk about that. 17:23.860 --> 17:28.100 What makes a campaign trustworthy? It was a question that we asked. They said it should be 17:28.100 --> 17:32.260 transparent. There should be consistent team members. So this kind of goes to 17:32.980 --> 17:37.940 what we were just hearing in the previous talk about, you know, you want to make sure this 17:37.940 --> 17:42.340 is our serious people. There should be consistent people, consistently working on it, 17:44.900 --> 17:52.100 clear project and donation goals. So you need to know how what you're communicating, and it should 17:52.820 --> 17:58.660 be clear and consistent. It should be honest and respectful, easy and established, and honest, 17:58.660 --> 18:04.820 anonymous payment methods. That was particularly important for, for F-Droid, that it was that people 18:04.900 --> 18:12.660 could donate anonymously. What should fast projects share publicly? People want to know 18:13.460 --> 18:17.460 where their money is going. This was really important, and what specifically do they want to know? 18:17.460 --> 18:23.940 They want to know a cost breakdown, funding goals, donation impact, impact is really important. 18:23.940 --> 18:30.500 You just communicate around that. They want to know the number of core contributors, how funds are 18:30.740 --> 18:39.940 allocated, and ideally annually reporting, and some sort of organization. In lieu of annual 18:39.940 --> 18:46.660 reporting, it doesn't necessarily be a report, but it could be, you know, a quarterly blog post, 18:46.660 --> 18:54.900 or you talk about this. That was one tip. So who can we look to? We asked who has done it well 18:55.780 --> 19:02.660 so you can, you know, model your campaigns after them. And these were some of the results 19:04.740 --> 19:08.820 be curious if you are familiar with these projects, and if you also think that they've done 19:08.820 --> 19:16.260 particularly well. But yeah, you can look to them for guidance, I suppose. At least that's what 19:16.260 --> 19:24.340 our survey said. Now, I would love us. I'm going to do something maybe a little bit 19:25.220 --> 19:32.980 weird for foster, maybe weird for this kind of set up, but I like to be interactive, 19:32.980 --> 19:38.740 and after it is all about community, Boston General is about community, and I wanted to use this 19:38.740 --> 19:44.900 opportunity for us to work together. There's lots of funders in the room, there's lots of foster 19:44.900 --> 19:50.660 projects in the room, and I wondered if you were a foster project, could you raise your hand? 19:51.460 --> 19:58.740 Cool. If you're a foster funder, working with a funding organization, okay, so there's a few 19:58.740 --> 20:04.340 or, but we still have quite a few. And even if you're foster projects working on the following 20:04.340 --> 20:09.140 questions together, you know, we can help each other learn from each other, and I just wanted 20:09.140 --> 20:13.700 to take this opportunity to have us do that, because Boston is not just about presentations 20:13.780 --> 20:19.620 about networking and community, so for the next few minutes, let's do a short exercise, 20:20.260 --> 20:27.700 and I would love to have you could pair up in groups of two or three, and then just brainstorm 20:27.700 --> 20:32.500 around some of these questions. Ideally, projects work together with funders, but if it doesn't 20:32.500 --> 20:36.580 work out that way, and projects just want to share your own experiences with each other, 20:36.580 --> 20:41.140 I think that would be great. And then we'll call you if you back in around five minutes, so 20:41.140 --> 20:47.620 you're quick. Thanks. Talk amongst yourselves. 21:12.100 --> 21:17.620 Well, there's this key. Yeah. 21:17.620 --> 21:45.860 Sorry, just, just wanted to say really quickly, it's not over. We're just doing an exercise. 21:45.940 --> 21:50.260 There seems to be some confusing, because some people are leaving. We're going to keep going 21:50.260 --> 21:53.700 after the exercise. Of course, if you want to leave, I'm not holding you hostage. 22:15.860 --> 22:17.860 You 22:45.860 --> 22:47.860 you 23:15.860 --> 23:17.860 you 23:45.860 --> 23:47.860 you 24:09.860 --> 24:14.980 All right, we're going to come back if everyone could slowly start wrapping up 24:14.980 --> 24:28.420 your conversations. I have to say, this is my first Boston, so this whole exercise thing was 24:28.420 --> 24:35.940 an experiment. I was just informed that does not happen very often at Boston talks. I hope you 24:35.940 --> 24:44.660 liked it. Yeah, so I was actually wondering, could we, like, maybe you can shout it out, or I don't 24:44.660 --> 24:50.820 know, does anybody want to share something like that they thought was insightful from your conversation that you had, something that 24:50.820 --> 24:58.420 used for people as well? Oh, I was going to repeat it. It saves you from walking. That's what's my idea, anyway. So yeah, 24:58.420 --> 25:06.580 anything that surprised you from your partner, yeah? Not surprised, but as I run in June that was 25:06.580 --> 25:14.820 147 Eps. Uh-huh. I see sometimes the founders, they think we have the money to build that. Uh-huh. 25:14.820 --> 25:25.460 They don't realize how much it 48 come up. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Sorry, what organization were you from? 25:25.460 --> 25:36.500 No, no, no. In the past. I'm not a transition, or so. Okay. Yeah, okay. So yeah, what he was saying for 25:36.500 --> 25:43.780 everybody at home was that funding, a lot of times funders think that, you know, you build it, 25:43.780 --> 25:48.260 and then the funding stops. And then that's it. Great. But they don't understand that there's 25:48.260 --> 25:54.900 maintenance that needs to be done and where is the money for that coming from. So that was that like a 25:54.900 --> 26:03.940 common, a common challenge that you may have. Yeah. Oh, make sure when you're asking for money, 26:03.940 --> 26:20.500 did you like that? Yeah. So thank you. That's a good one. So, um, when you're asking for funding, 26:20.500 --> 26:27.940 always make sure to include overhead or factor that in somehow, um, so that you can pay yourself 26:27.940 --> 26:32.100 for whoever's doing the overhead maintenance. That's important. And it's actually a little bit 26:32.100 --> 26:38.020 of a contradiction because some grants don't allow for it. So, um, but yeah, great. So I would just, you know, 26:38.820 --> 26:44.660 encourage you guys to keep, keep talking about this beyond these four walls. So, um, we can 26:44.660 --> 26:51.700 carry on the conversation because it is so important, um, in order to protect the infrastructure, 26:51.700 --> 26:56.660 the false infrastructure, protect, you know, contribute, against contributor burnout and, um, 26:56.660 --> 27:02.180 the longevity of the projects. So, I'm going to wrap it up now. All of this research, 27:02.180 --> 27:05.220 we also did interviews. I didn't have time to go into the interviews. We're going to be publishing 27:05.220 --> 27:11.700 a blog, series about it, in case you want to follow that space on afteride.org. Um, but there are 27:11.700 --> 27:17.060 some changes that we're going to be making based on, um, the results of the study and the interviews. 27:17.060 --> 27:24.580 So, we're going to improve transparency. We have, there are, there, we're, uh, certainly 27:24.660 --> 27:28.980 transparent about how the donations are used. We don't really actively communicate around it. 27:29.300 --> 27:33.860 You can go there and look, but most people are, like, a lot of people were not doing that. 27:33.860 --> 27:38.740 So, one area that we thought we could improve was communicating about it in our blog and how we 27:38.740 --> 27:45.140 communicate with our community. Um, we're improving our website copy and designed to communicate 27:45.140 --> 27:51.300 around impact. That's something we actually did recently. Um, we just updated our website copy. 27:51.380 --> 27:56.100 In the future, we're near future. We're going to be revamping the website design as well, but we 27:56.100 --> 28:02.180 started first with the copy. Um, and that was a direct result of some of the research that we did. 28:03.380 --> 28:07.460 Um, we're going to be launching our first campaign. We never actually launched a donation campaign. 28:09.220 --> 28:13.700 So, uh, now we did all the research and hopefully our campaign will be really great. Um, 28:13.700 --> 28:18.420 and then obviously we'll see how we can improve it on the second one. Um, we're going to be creating 28:18.660 --> 28:24.580 a donation campaign widgets. And we want to share those, um, with the app developers, 28:24.580 --> 28:29.460 just to support them launching their own campaigns. Because after I, is one of the things that 28:29.460 --> 28:33.060 we are as an app store. So, we want to give the tools that we're creating to the developers. So, 28:33.060 --> 28:41.300 they can also create donation campaigns. Um, we created clear donation tiers with impact descriptions. 28:41.860 --> 28:46.420 So, a lot of it was about communication. We're going to start exploring partnership opportunities 28:46.500 --> 28:52.020 and include testimonials, um, from past contributors and improved storytelling. Um, we actually 28:52.020 --> 28:55.940 already started collecting some stories. And it was really inspirational. So, I'm looking forward 28:55.940 --> 29:01.620 to incorporating those on our communication and our website. So, those are some of the changes for 29:01.620 --> 29:06.820 after it. And I, I really hope that the survey results and some of the information that we shared 29:06.820 --> 29:12.340 would be useful for you and your fast projects and that, um, the conversations that you have 29:12.420 --> 29:17.620 don't stop there and, uh, keep going throughout fostering. Thank you so much. And if there's 29:17.620 --> 29:32.500 time, we'll take questions. One question. All right, she was first. And the only one apparently. 29:32.820 --> 29:48.260 Okay. Does this, oh, it does. Wow. Hi, I'm Arrol. Um, so on your, um, previous slide, the discussions 29:48.260 --> 29:55.380 to have. Um, so, uh, as on behalf of the advisory council of OTF that works on the civil 29:55.380 --> 30:04.020 sustainability fund, this was great to see specifically. Um, that my question is, how would you 30:04.020 --> 30:09.060 want advisory council members that work on behalf of these funders? What do you want them to do? 30:09.060 --> 30:14.980 What can we do to help fast projects more, um, communicate like their value and, and other things? 30:14.980 --> 30:22.580 Do you have ideas on that? Well, one thing that we started doing this year, um, and I, I guess 30:22.580 --> 30:28.020 your question was directed at us, but I guess for other false projects too. But one thing that we 30:28.020 --> 30:33.140 started doing this year is, um, we started having some conversation. I'll call them like coaching 30:33.140 --> 30:39.540 conversations around how we communicate. Because, um, after I had, as Hans said in the beginning, 30:39.540 --> 30:45.620 was a group of people that were passionate about false apps and weren't necessarily, you know, 30:46.340 --> 30:51.300 into marketing and PR and communication. And so there was, like, definitely a lack around how we 30:51.380 --> 30:57.540 communicate, especially to non-technical users. So we had some, um, what call them like coaching calls, 30:59.380 --> 31:05.860 propono, we didn't remember, um, with some more experienced campaigners to help us, like, 31:06.900 --> 31:13.220 understand the language around funding, um, because we just, we didn't, we were, obviously, 31:13.220 --> 31:16.820 clearly creating some impact, but we were communicating it effectively and we didn't, we weren't 31:16.820 --> 31:21.860 speaking the funding language. So how can we, like, map what we do to that type of language? 31:21.860 --> 31:27.380 And that was very beneficial and useful for us. Um, and then, yeah. So we're going to be, 31:27.380 --> 31:31.140 in the website, copy as a first step and then, I mean, and after, in particular, it's kind of 31:31.140 --> 31:35.140 interesting because we don't have anybody's email address so we can't, we can't have, like, 31:35.140 --> 31:39.940 a mailing list. I included it because I know that, that's a little bit rare that most people 31:39.940 --> 31:45.860 do probably have mailing lists and newsletter. So I think that's, and users. But for us, like, 31:45.940 --> 31:51.620 the way we communicate with, with users, um, is the blog, and then we do have a forum, um, 31:51.620 --> 31:58.420 but yeah. So I guess, like, kind of getting guidance and coaching around that, like, impact 31:58.420 --> 32:02.420 pillars, these sorts of things that we were not really aware of. Did you want to add anything? 32:03.700 --> 32:07.780 Okay. Okay. Oh, times up. Thank you, everybody.